Could be interesting, this will depend on how they police the policemen. The ISPs are going to have to invest in many more packet sniffers than they do at present to get round packet spoofing. It certainly is feasible, but there will need to be some kind of mechanism in place that ensures ISPs really are doing this, and not raised their prices to cover the substantial cost base increase for nothing.

The privacy issues will be a joy to behold as this unfurls, could be interesting ..... at least they are trying, because something needs to be done to curb what is blatant theft by any measure or excuse. Anything that replaces - in a practical way - DRM is welcome.

The other danger is other part of the infrastructure may gladly wash their hands of other measures - "not our business, ISPs do that" (etc).

Regards
Zy

EU to Ban Pirates from the Internet?

Are you still allowed them for Single Player or LAN games???  

So don't bet on it saving you money - Theft diminishes supply and demand in a balanced fashion both the supply and the demand are reduced, and the change in price is going to depend on the elasticity of the market.

IP piracy cannot diminish supply (Which effectively is equivalent to whatever demand is, barring trivial reproduction/server costs), only demand, so the cost equations work differently.

If most profitable end price is determined by supply and demand, then piracy can not (by definition, presuming idealized markets) raise the cost of a game - the price point that maximizes ((cash per copy) * (Copies sold)) is fixed. It's like the argument that eliminating the gas tax will lower gas prices - if the market price is 4.10/gal, then eliminating the gas tax just means that money goes straight to the gas station instead of being set aside to fix roads - the supply and demand have not changed, so, *by definition*, the market price has not changed.

By the same token - reproduction costs being trivial on a per item basis, piracy can'y really affect supply (Only if it becomes so rampant as to make the fixed expenses of production higher than the profit from the market, at which point supply goes from infinite to zero.) and can only marginally affect demand (Since it can only decrease the demand in the market already unwilling to pay the for the item - i.e., in the market that wasn't actually part of the market.)

So you still have the same effective supply and demand as you did before. The only thing fighting piracy can do is, ah, slim your profit margins by wasting money fighting it without actually affecting either the supply or the demand for your product, raising your overhead without any corresponding raise in price.

Which, come to think of it, I seem to vaguely recall somebody posting something about - uh - -frog something? Sorry, I'm a newbie here, I think he must be a fan of the Iconians or something? Anybody know him?

{G} - Jonnan

Frogboy, the CEO of Stardock.

Okay - attempts at sardonic, no longer to be attempted.

I'll mark that right under "Romulan Ale no longer to be served at diplomatic functions"

{G} - Jonnan

I always considered piracy as a great tool for countering poor entertainment making, if something is worth it, most people tend to go out and buy it.

I have one worry, i use the internet to download episodes of battlestar galactica and so on (as their released in the US before they are over here), will these also be targetted by anti-piracy laws? I imagine they will be unfortunatley, as less people will naturally purchase the boxed DVD sets.

I think one counter to this, would be online TV channels, so you still get the adverts and the makers of the shows still get payed. I've noticed this with the likes of SkySports News (Rupert Murdochs Satellite sports channel over here in the UK), their web site has interviews with players and coaches etc. These are usually slotted between two adverts.

 Thats not say though i won't just switch off while the adverts are on, or turn my attention on something more productive.

I think most people agree that you deserve to get payed for what you've done, but a lot of people have a hard time feeling sympathy for the thing we relate most to the entertainment industry, which is wealthy actors and directors living lifestyles we can only dream of. I know naturally that these people will be the last to feel any effect of piracy however and instead it may actually be cut backs on other members of staff in production companies etc. that will take the hit.

Finally on the issue of game companies, well i think if you take stardock as an example of how to handle piracy, that is to provide good support and updates to your products, but only if you are reigstered with them online, then you can see that if you just apply a bit of thinking and deliver a quality product and service, then you have very little to fear in regards to piracy.

Doubt it will go through and not something that would really be tolerated in any progressive free society. ISPs don't want to do anything that will destroy the trust with their customers. They have a hard enough time to keep them already, this will just completely chase them away. 

 

If a quality product is a determining factor on whether your not some kind of 5 finger discount asshole, what does that say about your own morals?

Are you gonna shoot somebody if he doesn't live up to your standards?

That food wasn't good. Next time take it.

That car had poor mpg. Hold the dealership hostage.

Your an asshole (If ya pirate). You deserve prison. Hopefully now you'll get it.

And the lawmakers feel the same way, so don't have another person make a long winded speech on how stopping piracy will do nothing (Which is contradicted by every study on piracy btw)

A kid (or adult) goes off and steals something, goes to prison. Intellectual theft is even worse, as the idea is worth more then the product itself.

Little pirate thugs need to be sent to prison.

Something like this will only succeed if the lissabon thingy is ratified since all the individual countries have their own laws.

It's good that they want to stop piracy, but will it affect encrypted traffic like uTorrent? Will it capture the veterans or just casuals?

If a quality product is a determining factor on whether your not some kind of 5 finger discount asshole, what does that say about your own morals?

Hi there,

I'd like to reply to this comment...I do agree that ideally piracy is a problem for many reasons, but I'd like to put forward an experience that I had.

I live in South Africa which has a weaker currency than the US, UK and Euro. Manufacturers of games, cd's, dvd's etc do not reduce their price proportionately with the value of the currency of the country they ship to - meaning its a bigger sacrifice for foreigners to but the product. So anyway, I went and bought a certain space strategy game (not Stardock made) a few years ago - legally - and I even got a friend to bring back my much anticipated game for me from the UK. The cost was about 30 pounds (much more in my currency) or something - which in my currency is a hell of a lot especially if you are a student. So I paid in good faith, and found the game a complete and total disappointment with minumum tech support or anything - it was like it was released and then forgotten. I felt really annoyed about this and it irritated me that I had no way of returning something or getting support for something that seemed like rubbish to me.

It would help, in my opinion, if games could be allowed to be tested for a limited period (trial period) and then the buyer must pay up e.g. what is done with Eve online. If I had been able to do that, I would never have wasted so much money.

So, if a buyer is sure he's going to like what he's paying for (like trying on a pair of shoes, or a jacket) you may find piracy becomes less prevalent. I also feel that many products (especially games) are directed at a younger audience which cannot necessarily afford to buy all the new games they would like because of being in school or students, that of course encourages piracy.

I'd prefer it if piracy didn't exist, but that is highly unlikely, people (developers and manufacturers) will always try to make as much as they can from their product meaning that there will be those who cannot afford it and will find other means of getting what they want - unfortunately

"Nothing short of executions without trial will save media company executives from the dreadful fate of not having enough black caviar to eat." (my own translation)

It also depends on what can be counted as piracy, the way i see it these companies want to consider everything there not making a buck off of as piracy.

Ive personally had some issues with my isp regarding this, I usually get my weekly anime fix via bittorrent, and my isp has flagged me for piracy and blocked ports and things, making me spend hours of time chewing out the bastards until i get my stuff fixed (which they eventually did, begrudgingly ofc). It all depends on what that count as 'piracy', b/c if these greedy bastards had their way downloading anything without paying for it would be piracy.

Another thing is that at what point does privacy become an issue? B/c i don't think they should be looking at what i do over the internet, which in my book is akin to wiretapping.


On top of that there is also the issue of public services such as wifi, will businesses have to quit providing wifi service due to fear of being flagged?

Im all for stopping the piracy, viruses and other crap on the internet. But not at the cost of my privacy or my service (blocking random ports, etc)

It will really be interesting if this comes to the US ... and you thought there was a stink raised over the Patriot Act.   

A few points, Xbox 360, PS3.. games that can not normally be pirated are too expensive by a long way, probably twice as expensive as they should be, and this is when virtually all their revenue is being recovered along sales of origal games. That said I own an Xbox 360 and I have 3 games, with absolutely no intention of buying another £50 pound game, its a blatent rip off, if they dropped that price to the say the price of a film around £15 to $20 then I would buy them at probably 1 a week; but I dont buy 1 a month now... markets are a strange thing. On another note PS2 games and with a chipped box (when I had it) after 2 years I had 7 origanals and around 40 pirated titles... BUT and this is the important BUT... if I had to purchase the 40 titles that was 1.99 down the local market I WOULD NOT have bougt them for 39.99... I just wouldnt have owned them. As the market is prodicted by was it Jonno001? up there, its all down to supply and demand.

On another note, who's going to sort out all the false claims and I guarentee you every one of the thousands or millions of pirates just in the UK where I live will demand an inquiry into each banning demanding proof and pushing it further each time, that accounts for any company, ALOT of paid for man hours, who's going to pay for that? My connection your connection charges? In effect we all gonna pay for piracy.

Piracy cannot be beaten, it can only be made harder so the casually pirate gives up, or produce good software that people will want to buy. Every game that comes up with a film release for the most part is just a cash cow thats an horrendous title usually badly written, and $40 of garbidge.

As well how are they going to police it? all I would do for example is download it on my laptop and turn my connection key security off, open for all... then if I ever get banned I just blame the next door neighbour and threaten to sew, as far as I can see job done.

If we start shutting people down for piracy we can shut anyone down on suspicion of....let not this be a ball to roll.

You'll never be able to stop poor quality product coming out unless it's unprofitable.

This is unenforceable, people will just take it underground, and pirates will start to view the government as an enemy, which will turn some pirates into hackers probably.

This is also one more reason why the EU is such a horrid idea, and a step away from democracy. Praise the Irish and Swedes.